Interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdB7WUfAP50
Paul Anthony Csysz, Professor of Aeronautical Engineering, started serving in the Air Force at Wright-Patterson in 1956 and was in the Air Force for two years, plus an additional six years working in research. He then returned to McDonnell-Douglas [merged with Boeing in 1997] and stayed there for thirty years working on classified and compartmentalized projects until his retirement in 1991. He returned to Parks College as an endowed Chair until he passed away in 2013.
Partial transcript:
PC: One of the more interesting nights I had at Wright-Patterson was when I was the assistant to the head officer-of-the-day over at Patterson Field. We had 151 phone calls come in regarding unidentified objects flying down U.S. 40 — then turning at Columbus and going up to Detroit. These [calls] were [from] state policemen, some doctors that worked late at night, all kinds of people that reported seeing this. We had radar tracks on them and had airliners call in that they had seen them. It was very, very interesting. These guys gave very clear descriptions of what they saw.
+1 minute
You know, probably more than half of my career I was in projects that were classified or compartmentalized.
Q: Can you describe how that process works?
PC: Well, generally, depending on the level of the compartmentalization and the secrecy level, you have to go through a fairly significant background check. It takes between six months to a year to get the background checks. Then, when you do that, if you’re in a very tight compartment, you have to sign a statement that you will not divulge the existence of the project or even answer a question that could acknowledge the existence of the project. It’s not even on a need-to-know basis; it’s on the basis of people being identified specifically to know what you’re working on and are directly associated with the project, so it’s very closely-contained material.
If you have a covert project, the funding would come through a number of government sources, none of which would be identified to the workers. Whatever high-level people were involved in it — even they might not know where the funding came from. It’s just that you sign a contract with the U.S. government, and the funding would show up at the right place at the right time.
If there were non-Earthbound sources of the information, at least the people who were doing the design work or doing the analysis work would never have any idea of where it [the materiel] came from. All you would have to do is visit Russia to see how they did it. They would compartmentalize every project into what I used to call silos, and they would have a colonel or a general sitting on top of that, and literally, they could not talk to anyone outside of that silo. If someone else needed help, one person would be sent over to another place, sit down at a desk, look at a piece of paper, say, “Yes, I know what that problem is; here’s the answer to it,” and walk away. He would not even know what it was that he was working on.
There’s giant triangles that appear over Palmdale that move very slowly — they have this glow around them and they’re very large and very slow-moving. That’s different, I think, [from] the ones that appear all over Belgium and that are very fast-moving.
You can’t explain that in conventional physics. By conventional physics, I mean engines and jet engines and rocket motors and propulsion systems as we know them today. You put fuel in, you burn something, and it produces thrust and accelerates an object. In conventional physics, you cannot explain how human beings could live long enough to go much beyond the edge of our little solar system. Because it takes almost 13 years to get to the outer edge where the Kuiper Belt is, so that’s a 26 years round trip, so you’re not even at the edge of the heliosphere where the edge of the Sun’s interaction is with free space. That’s 3 light years away and that would take 150 years. So no, in the conventional terms you cannot explain it.
It has to be related to quantum physics, in which things can appear to be almost two places at the same time, and appear and reappear just like positrons and electrons do in some of the high-energy particle colliders. It’s a coupling of the device with the energy that permeates space. Probably Tesla was close to it when he said that if given the right energy system, the right electromagnetic spectrum, he could power a human base on Mars from Earth, without any loss of energy. In quantum physics and zero-point energy, that’s a possibility.
But literally Sakharov and others who were working on this made very convincing arguments that the fabric of space is like an ocean, an energy ocean, in which solid energy is floating, and solid energy is the mass. If that’s true, then gravity waves exist [predicted gravity waves in 99], and in fact, everything goes back to Heaviside’s equations and it’s waves not particles. Here, the quantum is now not mass, but time. If that’s true, then you look at the whole universe in a different light. A lot of things become possible, that we think impossible within our current understanding of what time and space and thrust and force are…If people are here from another civilization, then they’ve understood the finer points of quantum physics.”
When I was at Wright-Patterson, we had the flying saucers that covered the distance from Columbus to Detroit in something like the equivalent of about 20,000 miles an hour. Back then, I don’t think anyone in the ordinary aerospace business would have had any knowledge of quantum physics or wormholes or the types of things we know now. But, if you went to CERN now and talked to the particle physicists, they would tell you certainly, some of this was possible, because they see it all the time. Where they think they see mass, they really see energy frozen in a time quantum and what they’re seeing is really a frozen bundle of energy. It moves back and forth almost without any restriction.”
Near St. Louis, there was a fairly large triangular object seen, and it traveled the distance down to south St. Louis. In some of its sightings, it was moving relatively benignly, but then it literally jumped about 20 miles in a couple of seconds. I received a lot of phone calls from the local newspapers and TV stations, asking how that could be done. I said, I don’t know how it can, unless you explain it through something like a quantum physics explanation of time and space and relationships that gave you time and space travel. Other than that, there’s no way to do that. And, this object made no sound at all. It starts out at hover, and it literally almost disappears and pops over here — so it’s not like a cartoon where it goes “whoosh.” It’s almost like it disappears and comes up over here, according to the descriptions that some of the police officers gave.
The hard part is to find a way to physically do that. You know, there are people who have been experimenting with zero-point energy, or who tried to tap zero-point energy for years. Every once-in-a-while, someone will do it accidentally and they’ll call it cold fusion, but I don’t think it’s cold fusion; I just think it’s a zero-point energy tap. Except for three people that I know, no one has been able to control it. When it happens, it happens for a short period of time and it’s almost always destructive. It’s like drilling a hole into the base of Grand Coulee Dam, and all of a sudden this jet of water comes out that literally has enough pressure to cut you in half. Without a valve on it, you can’t shut it off.
There’s one guy that a friend of mine actually visited in Ann Arbor, Michigan, who I consider a mathematical genius, and who actually figured out a way to control it. He was so paranoid he divorced his wife, left his wife and children and went in hiding. Because he was terrified that someone would kill him for the knowledge that he had and the ability to tap this whenever he chose to, and control it. We haven’t seen him in five years, we don’t know where he is.
You know, today you’ve got an energy problem with the price of oil. What do you think would happen if you introduced an ability to tap this zero-point energy? Zero-point energy represents about 40-50 megawatts of power per cubic inch of space. That’s a lot of power. If you could tap it at will, then no one would have to sell gasoline or oil anymore. You would just tap into it. It would be like going out to the Great Lakes and taking out one drop and using it — you’d hardly miss it. And, since it permeates the whole universe and it continually fluctuates as matter and antimatter interact, it’s not like it’s a steady lake. It’s a pool the size of the universe. So, for what we would use it for, you’d never even miss it.
This one researcher claimed that if you bottle it and move it to another location and release it, he sounded exactly like Mr. Spock, he said you’d create a tear in the time domain of the local space and actually cause a problem, which he claims he did and he will never do it again, which is bottle it and move it.
The other part is, it doesn’t work on conventional jet engines. One has to create an actual zero-point energy engine to do that. There’s one guy in Ann Arbor, Michigan who had one running in his basement. It was not connected to any power source whatsoever, sitting in the middle of a table and it had been running for a year.
But, none of these researchers would have an inkling of how you would build a ship the size of a football field and make it move at the speeds that apparently it [the one near St. Louis] moved. Speed’s actually the wrong word, because conventionally we think of this as speeding through space, but what if it really acts like some of the high-energy particles at CERN? They really transfer into energy and reappear over here, and there was no mass that went anywhere — because all mass is solid energy. The conventional wisdom is that a complex organic structure like us cannot transfer back and forth from energy to solid, but that’s because we’ve never seen it done.
What you represent is solid energy. You think you’re solid, right? In fact, the distance between the atoms in your body is almost exactly relatively proportional to the same distance as the planets around the sun. So, if you could look at your individual atoms, you would be 98 percent space. If you were the equivalent of a neutron star, which is only the nucleus and the electrons compressed, you would fit on the point of a pin. When you really get down to what you’re made out of, the total state of you is on the point of a pin.
James S. McDonnell [McDonnell-Douglas founder] actually had an institute to study paranormal psychology. That’s why his airplanes were named Banshee and Phantom. He was an Irishman [Scotsman] who was very much interested in the spiritual world and the paranormal, and he had part of his research department working with a foundation he had to study the paranormal.
The “Great Randi”, the magician, infiltrated his organization and actually, for about six months, did sleight-of-hand experiments to [deceive] him that there would be something really there, and then he’d discredit him — the head of the research department would not even talk about anything related to this.
In fact, the guy in Ann Arbor that had the zero-point energy machine actually came to McDonnell-Douglas. He and his partners came in, and they were going to talk about this funny hydrogen motor that they had. I got invited to the meeting and about halfway through it, I just said, guys, you have a zero-point energy machine — why don’t you admit it? And the head of the research department whom he thinks was discredited with Puthoff [by Randi] had the guards come in and escort them off the plant, because he [head of research] was just so terrified of this and what he thought was pseudoscience. I said, it’s not pseudoscience; it’s just beyond what we know right now.
Randi would say “I can’t measure it” and what I would say is I’m gonna’ give him a ruler and I’m gonna’ say “now I want you to measure the diameter of an atom” or “I want to measure what’s the distance between quarks” and his answer is “well, that device isn’t useful for doing that”. So when he talks about radio instruments and electrodes and probes and says he can’t measure anything parapsychological, he may not know “what is parapsychology?” or “how do you measure it?”
Parapsychology — how do you measure it? The only people I know that have come close are the Russians in their parapsychology institutes, most of which are all now defunct. They had some very interesting twins that they were doing experiments with: they were measuring something that was occurring between the two of them, in their brains, so they could actually know what the other one was thinking. It’s utterly amazing — the spectrum of electromagnetics that are going on inside the brain.
The Russians have done a lot with what’s called scalar waves and different spectrum electromagnetics within the brain. They’re convinced that you can explain parapsychology, if you could ever find out what it is that you’d have to measure to prove that it’s occurring. But, they just got to the edge of perhaps measuring something.
It’s all based on physics. If it’s scalar waves, then you’re in a whole other avenue of physics that [is] very controversial. Tesla was very, very much into those. The difficulty with Tesla, is that when he passed away, J. Edgar Hoover came in and confiscated almost everything. When his maid discovered him dead, she didn’t discover him dead — she discovered five FBI agents in his room pilfering everything, and he was [lying] on the bed dead. His nephew sued the U.S. government and won back theoretically all of his equipment, experiments, and records. There were theoretically fifty boxes and he got forty-five of those in Belgrade. The other five are missing and a whole bunch of stuff is missing.
One of the guys did an experiment in New Jersey which was build a half-grounded antenna, which was a very unusual and different configuration; everyone said it wouldn’t work. But in 1934 he met one of Tesla’s assistants whom he worked with in New Jersey and he says, “well, you’re hooking wrong. Here, you hook it up like this.” So in a rainstorm in Massachusetts they hooked up a little 10 Watt receiver/transmitter up and the other guy went 15 miles away on the other side of the mountain, and in the rainstorm they held a conversation over that antenna system without any noise, static or anything else on it.
We also found a record of a submarine that was in the Mediterranean in 1917 [or] 1918. Tesla, in New Jersey, put one of these antennas in the ocean, right off the coast, and [one] on the shore and he’s holding a conversation with the captain of the submarine — one of the guys actually dug out of the Navy records the log of the submarine and it essentially says: “some idiot who’s claiming he is in New Jersey talking to me must be absolutely crazy because I know I am 100 feet underwater, and no one can be talking to me from New Jersey” — and he had the matching language in his records, Tesla’s logbook. So, what was that? People say oh — it was an accident, it was a coincidence, etc., but there are a lot of things we can’t explain that people have actually done.
4 minutes.
If I were to look at [the period of time] since my first introduction to UFOs as a young lieutenant, to today, I would say there’s a large number of covert projects that go on in the United States that none of us are ever aware of. And if you see some of those things, they probably bend your mind, and they they don’t fit your conception of what an airplane or whatever it is — so it seems to you to be a UFO. So, I think maybe a large fraction of those [suspected UFOs] are covert projects that we’re doing or someone’s doing that are Earthbound and human beings’[technologies]. If you really knew what was behind them, you would say, yes, I can see how that works.
But then I think it’s like Project Bluebook: there’s this hardcore 10-15 percent, or 20 percent, that don’t fit any explanation other than the fact that the individuals/beings that are in them and came here, did so by way of a process that we’re not familiar with — that is time-space travel. I firmly believe that some of those are like that.
The history of the world has been that the wrong individual getting that information can use it for a lot of destructive things; not everyone would use it for the betterment [of humanity]. Almost anything you can think of can be turned around and used as a weapon. When you get into these kind of energy, energy-time transitions, it’s what Tom Bearden says they they could be used to just wipe out whole segments of the population and the Earth, as well as they could be made to liberate us from all dependence on fossil fuels.
First of all, the ballistic missile defense system is probably a pipe dream, in the sense that what it’s designed for is assuming that you know where [the threat] is coming from. When we had Russia, there was a 50-50 chance that you knew about where it would be coming from. With the rogue nations that we have today, it’s absolutely ludicrous. The threat is the guy who walks in with the briefcase — remember that in the ‘50s, they built a nuclear warhead that fit inside a Sparrow, which has an eight-inch-diameter body. That was a quarter kiloton weapon. That will fit inside any briefcase you can think of. The guy may die carrying it, but he’s going to die anyway, so what difference does it make? I’m far more afraid of that.
If people/beings can travel in time-space, then anything we would put in orbit as a weapon would be like going against Genghis Khan with a firecracker. It doesn’t make sense.
When we talk about zero-point energy, what that means is when everything comes down to rest, there’s still energy left. It’s like sea level in the ocean. There is a constant flow of energy between matter and antimatter, as it annihilates itself and recreates itself. It occurs in stars — it’s a continual exchange of energy and although the average is zero, that zero may be a pretty high level above nothing at all. What Sakharov and some of the physicists said, is that it’s this level that creates the background energy for the universe to exist.
There’s a group of Russians that used that tube to repeat an experiment that Tesla ran in Colorado Springs. When he [Tesla] ran it, he actually tapped so much energy that the electric energy flowed back through the wire and actually destroyed the power station at Colorado Springs. And when the Russians repeated it at the Moscow Aviation Institute, they blew up the 1 megawatt station at MAI.
This was 1980. When I got involved in space again with Sandy McDonnell and we started what eventually became the National Aerospace Plane, I met a group of Russians over in England who had a conference. One of them had been involved in transmitting energy from an antenna on the ground to a satellite in orbit, and back down to Moscow, with only about 10-15 percent losses. He said the reason we can do this, is this is a scalar wave projector, and here’s what it uses — he opens up his loose-leaf binder and says, “You can’t take any pictures of this or make any sketches; just look at it.” And, lo and behold, there’s the tube I saw in Yugoslavia. This was the antenna that Caspar Weinberger was saying was the antiballistic missile thing [the Russians allegedly had]. He says if you ever go in the building, all you’re going to see is an empty concrete building with a couple of cables — because it’s not an anti-ballistic missile radar [can be weaponized though]— it’s a scalar wave transmitter. Finally, when the DoD got in there, they found an empty concrete building with a couple of wires in it and they said, “Ah, they pulled everything out.” But Viktor says it never was in there. He claims he transmitted up to 10 megawatts of power from this station, to a satellite, to Moscow, and got about 8.5 to 9 megawatts of power back in Moscow.
They were on the verge of understanding how you do some of these unconventional things, but all of that is now gone. I don’t know where he is. He lost his job and his institute disappeared, so a lot of that work just collapsed in the Soviet Union.
That’s the same tube that Tesla said he could [use to] transmit energy to Mars — the surface of Mars — and support a human colony, or [the same] to the surface of the Moon. So once you break through that and you actually do that, then fuel doesn’t become a problem anymore in orbit: you just use one of these tubes to generate the power directly to the right antenna, and you can fly to the moon, you can fly into orbit, you can do anything you want.
I don’t think the people that have access to it [these advanced energy technologies] know how to let go of it, because they’re afraid of who’s going to get their hands on it. Even though there would be a tremendous benefit to mankind and getting us energy sources that we wouldn’t have the problems we have with today, they’re also worried that somebody could take that same energy source and do the equivalent of what they did with the USS Cole — instead of blowing a hole in the side, just obliterating the whole ship.
It’s like trying to describe Casper the friendly ghost. You might see a cartoon of him, but you don’t know how big he is, you don’t know where his funding comes from, you don’t know how many there are, because of the compartmentalization and the oath that people have to take. I know people today that worked on one of the things I worked on, that if you asked them “Do you recognize this name?”, even if I can show it to you on the internet – there’s some things that have recently come up on the internet where some of the stuff that I was associated with, their names are now on the internet, they would say “No, I have no idea what you’re talking about.” And they’re in their seventies now, but they still absolutely would never admit that they even know what you’re talking about. So, you don’t know, you have no idea.
But it’s probably larger than you think. And again — there’s a reason for it: you don’t want people who would be hostile to you to know what it is you could do to them if they really caused a major catastrophe. Because if they knew that, you wouldn’t prevent them from doing it — they would just do it another way.
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